The Commenting Process
A response I was writing on yesterday’s post To EXIF or not to EXIF? got me thinking about the whole process of critiquing and how I actually do this. What factors are important and what causes me to write what I do.
Increasingly my interest has become providing an honest feedback and information which could help the photographer improve their image from my point of view. I subscribe to the view, however, that in the end there is only one opinion that matters and that is the one belonging to the photographer who alone knows what was intended. The rest of us are proffering advice and opinions from the sidelines. For me it is clear though that if a large number of people are saying the same thing then there is probably something to take note of - either positive or negative.
It is often surprising which pictures provide a strong reaction - for some reason more so when this is a positive reaction (the negative I often expect 
). A good example is the image I posted last Monday - Stowe Reflected: Grotto which received an overwhelming positive resonse despite my feeling that it is run-of-the-mill. This may be to do with my familiarity with the subject turning into taking it for granted.
Variables
- Objective Factors
- Technical quality of image - focussing, exposure …
- Subject
- Composition
- EXIF data
- Subjective Factors
- Relationship with photographer
- General skill level of photographer
- My own mood
- Existing comments
Above is a list of some of the variables which influence my commenting broken down into two sections.
Key Factors for Me
Thinking about it now, the ones which are of most consequence to me in terms of the comment I write have less to do with the objective quality of the photograph itself. These are my relationship with the photographer and the general skill level of the photographer. My relationship plays a role, because generally I do not critique photos - particularly negatively - of photographers I have not been reviewing and interacting with for some time. Further, I also have a picture of the photographers ‘body of work’ in mind and generally compare this image with that, i.e. is it weaker or stronger and this modifies my commenting accordingly. Paradoxically therfore, I am more critical of good photographs and photographers than weaker ones.
Sorry guys 
The objective factor which plays the strongest role in my opinion forming is composition - for me this is the key issue, the technical aspects of exposure and focussing are generally taken care of very satisfactorily by even the most basic of cameras available today. Even the best camera, however, can have no influence on the composition. The key is what to include and what not to include, not any rules of composition per se - see also the article Composition in Photography.
I do try not to let the subject influence me, but we all have likes and dislikes - the one problem I have is with flower images - some of them are very good, but there are an awful lot of seriously bad ones and there are an awful lot of them period. Mostly I do not comment, though there are a few of my A list blogging friends where I pretend this problem does not exist for me in order to make some kind of comment.
Of the other factors, EXIF is irrelevant, I try not to let my mood affect me, though I am sure it does from time-to-time. The one area I try not to let myself be influenced is that of the comments from others. I have noticed, however, that an early comment that contains what is critique (i.e. not backslapping alone) often influences those that follow. One might say this is to be expected and somehow underlines an objective truth; sometimes I am sure this is true, but other times I feel people feel they can jump onto somebody else’s bandwaggon.
The Process
The process I use is simple, though not at all scientific.
1. Form an Opinion
I look at the image and form an instant opinion of it.
- Do I like it?
- Why do I like it or not?
- Composition
- Technical quality
- Originality
- What do I like about it?
- How could it be improved?
2. Decide on Level of Comment
I have five levels of comment.
- No comment
- Discuss things other than the image
- some text the photographer has written
- the subject matter
- Compliment on some aspect of the image attractive to me
- Comment about why the image is strong
- Compliment with a suggestion for improvement
Often I will make a combination of these and generally I try to be positive and constructive. As discussed previously my relationship with and my perception around previous work of that photographer will heavily influence my choice. Generally the more robust the image, my relationship and the photographer (gauged on their own commenting habit) the further up this scale I run.
Rarely do I chose option 1 - no comment - thinking that if the photographer has taken the time to post and I have taken the time to look and think it does us both good - even if it is what I call a ‘drive by’ comment at least it acknowledges that I was there.
Sometimes I will just make a comment low down the scale because it is easier and quicker.
Conclusion
As I said, this is a far from scientific process, but I was surprised that during my writing of this article I discovered how much my assessment depends upon so-called ’soft’ factors.
I would be very interested to hear your opinion of my process and how you go about this for yourself.
September 26th, 2005 at 3:20 pm
I never really thought about the “process” of commenting. My own commenting seems to go along the same lines of what you have said– relationship with the photographer and the photographer’s existing body of work being a benchmark, so to say.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
It is very interesting that you shade your response based on your perception of the technical competence of the photographer. You are obviously a natural leader or teacher in that you recognise when encouragement helps more than criticism and when sloppiness in someone who should know better needs pointing out to sharpen them up a bit. It is possible to separate ‘do I like this shot?’ from ‘is it technically well executed?’ but a well executed shot that leaves you cold may be less ‘good’ than a less than perfect shot that stirs some emotion in you.
So I would add emotion to your ‘why do I like it list’ above composition.
I now also see your point on ‘drive by’ comments rather than no comment.
Your reflected grotto shot is very well executed having enough detail in shadow areas and no blown highlights on light brickwork but it also has a mood or feel to it that is possibly both peacefull and menacing at the same time. Maybe I just miss the British countryside. Bye the way having seen your ‘about’ details I could have written that myself (as I am sure could many others) I too had a Zorki 4 then a Zenit E then went to Pentax K1000 as my mate had an OM and I didnt want to copy him. Now returned to photography with a D100 (and a growing collection of 2nd hand film stuff). Thanks to the inspiration of this site (inteligent but not toooo serious) and your circle of frequent commenters, I am now seriously investigating setting up a blog of my own.
September 26th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
Forgot to say I also started the digital thing with the C70Z (after months of agonising research) which developed so many faults it was back at the manufacturers 5 times and put me off digital for some time, now have a Fuji F10 compact which is a top toy for the family, and me when I can get my hands on it.
September 26th, 2005 at 7:29 pm
These are, somewhat, my own thoughts about commenting. However, I often do #1 :no comments” when I really dislike a photo or if there are already a massive amount of comments.
Discussion of the photo: for my own photos, this lends me to think that I’ll write NOTHING about the photo, but just post it - then nobody can comment on the text because that’s not really why I have a PHOTOblog. I want feedback about the photo.
I usually will skim the comments - what is the overall impression of the other viewers? My gut impression might not be the same so I want to guage my critique somewhat. This isn’t really fair to the photographer, that’s for sure but I don’t want to say that “I hate this” when everybody else loves it. This usually leads me back to #1.
Also, if there are GOBS of comments, I usually don’t comment. Some people (like your blog) indicate how many comments have already been posted. When I’m seeing that 15-30 people already posted comments before I showed up to have a look so really, what more can I add? Seems like a waste my time and the photobloggers time.
Because I want good feedback, I try to leave good feedback regarding the more technical aspects of the photograph, but then I sometimes just go with the flow of the other commenters . . .
September 26th, 2005 at 8:47 pm
Keith - thank you for your kind words - they are truly appreciated. I guess my job is indeed the promotion of leadership and industrial psychology so perhaps I do do this even without thinking about it - this particular article is honest, but it takes a risk that some may read thing into my future commenting based pn this that is not there. I agree that technical excellence is no indicator of enjoyment of the image - I believe in composition as I have indicated. Of course technically well executed work helps a lot.
I do hope you join us nutters who are dooing this insane thing - I can tell already that I would enjoy the banter with you. Looks like there are a lot of similarities between us (bad luck!).
Jamie - never thought of the number of comments as being a factor in my own commenting - I guess I am disappointed that this would prevent you from commenting on my work. I will consider removing this count from the front page!
For me there is always a point in me expressing my own opinion regardless of how many others have already done so - I appreciate and read every one. Generally I formulate my response prior to reading other comments in an attempt to be my own person - sometimes I modify my view if somebody has raised a point I had missed.
September 27th, 2005 at 12:11 am
A few things come too clearly to my mind about my commenting.
I seldom say that I don’t like an image and if I do it is with a photographer that I am very comfortable with.
I never read comments prior to formulating my thoughts about the image.
If somebody has not asked for critique or if I don’t think that a photograph has merit then I will not offer suggestions.
The more talented that I think a photographer is the more likely I am to harshly criticize his or her work.
The more potential that I believe a photographer has the more likely I am to offer constructive criticism.
I never offer criticism to a photographer that I have not seen other people criticizing. I guess I take this as a no critiquing wanted sign.
I love to work with new photographers. This is my favorite group of people to teach. Often once a photographer gains some experience and skill they lose some enthusiasm and wonder, so I don’t like teaching advanced courses near as well as beginning courses. So I take particular delight in offering suggestions to photographers who are just beginning to SEE.
The less time I have the more likely I am to leave a drive-by comment.
The more an image hits me emotionally the more likely I am to comment on this.
I often visit an image several times if I am uncertain about it or if I really enjoy it. I seldom comment on my second, third… visits.
I am far more likely to offer constructive criticism to a photographer if they have offered the same to me.
September 27th, 2005 at 1:28 am
There is a rule of thumb at another group I’m involved with, digital scrapbooking… that is you took the time to open their page and view it, you should leave a comment for encouragement and in appreciation that they are sharing something likely very personal. This sharing is done not only because they want others to see their work but so that others can learn from their work.
I am a complete beginner who four months ago didn’t have a clue what aperature meant. In a short time I feel I’ve learned so much and it is from photoblogs and books. When I post a picture it’s not so much because I think it’s outstanding but maybe I learned something new that I want to share with others who may stop by my blog to also learn.
I appreciate comments that are constructive because I learn and others who read the comments learn. It’s a great thing! And likely one may think of some of my shots as ordinary snapshots, well I likely know when that is the case… but I didn’t have anything better and/or I wanted to share something personal with people who I’ve come to know through this online community. So I don’t really need someone to tell me that. But if someone said if you cropped the photo in this way, it would be more flattering… which Rock has done and it made a difference. I love that kind of feedback.
As for saying “great shot” “beautiful” “wonderful” when you know it’s not a great shot, that is just too hard to do. I find something I do like about the photo, maybe pattern or contrast… and leave that in the comment.
As for your post about commenting, I really enjoyed reading it and am really enjoying your words blog. Thank you!
September 27th, 2005 at 6:12 am
Rock - I think I agree with and operate under all the points you ention about commenting.
I do sometimes visit a picture more than once, though that is the exception rather than the rule. I do quite often visit the picture tomorrow (if you see what I mean) when I am commnting on the next one. This gives me a chance to see the full array of feedback and see how the views of others compare to mine - I often learn a lot from this. This is useful because my routine is such that I am usually early on a particular set of blogs that publish just prior to my ‘tour’.
Kim - I am in your camp of pretty much ‘if I visit, I comment’. You are one of my most regular commenters.
Your example is an excellent one of somebody who has rapidly moved upward in the quality of their photography as I told you recently already. I suspect the blog has helped you some with the feedback and the discipline of taking picutres - this has certainly helped me.
I also agree - I never say this is wonderful if I do not think it is - though as I said in the article, what might be to me wonderful from one person would not be good enough from another.
THank you for the encouragement on the words - I am surprised how easily I am finding it to write something each day (only been going since 10 September though).
September 28th, 2005 at 1:31 am
Initially, I was surprised with how positive most photoblog comments were and I wondered why the photoblogging community was so different from other web forums like Usenet, where people almost relish a good flame war. Why does that not occur here? Is it because photographers by nature look for the beautiful and/or meaningful in what we see? I love the change in my mindset since getting a camera and photoblogging — instead of forming an instant negative judgement of, say, an abstract photo, I now “give it a chance” and spend time looking for something I DO like. I usually learn about some element of art (textures, shadows, reflections) that I tend not to pay enough attention to myself.
Yet I am also grateful for suggestions on alternate ways of composing a shot. I wish I felt more qualified to give truly helpful suggestions. Years ago I went to England (a lifelong dream of mine) and took shot after shot of the beautiful countryside; I got home and had nothing but dull photos of distant hillsides against gray skies. I had caught none of the light or beauty. In contrast, I’ve just returned from a trip with a set of photos that captured Lake Michigan just the way I wanted to remember it — I can only credit this to both the positive encouragement and constructive suggestions on my blog and from my friends. I only wished you’d all been around before I went to England! Until I can get back there, I will have to rely on Ian to capture his lovely countryside instead.
September 28th, 2005 at 5:52 am
I agree that I also look for something positive in the image - irrespective of my final comment. Partially because there are so many ways to take a photograph, this helps me to try to discover what the photographer was intending (nobody deliberately takes a bad picture).
Judy, you take pictures, you can see, you have an opinion - ergo you are ‘qualified’. It is surprising what encourages and helps me - yse it is often Rock with his wealth of technical knowledge and practical experience, but often it is a modest comment from somebody else that is less technical, but expressing their non technical view that provokes a thought in me.
SOrry you did not get the images you wanted of the UK - let me know if you intend to come again sometime.
Ian
September 28th, 2005 at 7:40 pm
I find the topic very interesting and figured I should add my humble opinion.
To say that I don’t care about comments at all would be a flat out lie.
Sure, I like to see that one of my photographs evokes a reaction, but for me, photoblogging is not about getting or giving comments. It a form of documentation. That, and being able to see the progress I’ve hopefully made. Comments from fellow bloggers often amuse me, some make me think, and a few force me to re-evaluate the photograph in particular.
But, like I said before, the recognition not what drives me. If there’s someone who chooses to comment, I’m all willing to listen to what they have to say. It’s interesting to see what other people think.
Other than that, I find it very hard to give comments with depth. There are a few reasons for that, the main reason being that English is not my first language.
Sometimes I find it difficult to translate all my thoughts properly.
I don’t have much knowledge about photography (sure I have read a few books on the subject matter), so discussing technical details seems to be a bit harder.
When giving a comment, I try to avoid reading other people’s thoughts, and follow my personal feeling and ask myself: “Does it ‘click’?”
And yes, I do realize that it’s a less objective approach. The ‘click’ counts more for me than perfect exposure or other technical details.
BK
September 28th, 2005 at 8:19 pm
Whether I comment or not is firstly based on time - I struggle to post photos regularly let alone browse my favourite blogs, commenting comes last.
I think the relationship between the viewer and the photograph is personal - we all assess quality according to our own criteria. Quality is subjective.
There exists a blogger known as a “comment whore” and they always have a following because a comment on a site deserves at least a visit in exchange. The more you comment the more comments you seem to receive.
If I leave a drive by comment its usually to let the blogger know that I drove by - I want them to know that I still visit even though I don’t have much to say. Sometimes I feel like a comment whore…..
I want people to visit, I want people to leave positive feedback but sometimes I feel the comment process is a waste of time because I have left very little advice to photographers that has helped them (who am I to comment) and I have received little advice that has helped me…..
I have however been motivated to continue my photography by positive feedback - I am in the process of trying to publish my photographs with a stock agency - I would not have done this if I had not started a photoblog and had not had my opinion confirmed that my photography is at least OK - I make images rather than take snapshots.
October 1st, 2005 at 11:24 pm
BK - I actually think most of us are either drawn to an image or not (the click you mention) and then spend out time justifying that opinion with logic to ourselves and others.
Graeme - I am also constrained by time as I guess most of us are and that is a big factor in the length and quality of my comment.
I do tend to comment on photographers who comment on my images. There are a couple of exceptions of photographers who do not seem to leave comments (at least for me) whose work I really like. One of the factors I enjoy about photoblogging is the community developed and this can only be developed by some kind of interaction - so I do it.
May 31st, 2010 at 4:11 pm
cheers very much, I have to announce that your blog is fantastic!